Light Warning Truck

Who can tell me about the Wartime Light Warning Trucks, I have a Ford WOT2 with what I thought was a wireless rear body, but turns out to be a Light Warning body...................what were they built for? who used them ? and what configuration went inside?

anyone have any photos of these in service.

I have found one original.

Jules

Also any clues on the original colours of this truck, would it have been Dark earth & green?

or Dark OD and Black?

Any help please?

Jules

Jules,

Mike Conniford had this to say (Bellona Military Vehicle Data number 8): The Wireless Light Warning body was fitted to both Guy and Ford WOT2H chassis. It was generally similar to the later type of wireless body except that the auxiliary dynamo and generating set compartment were omitted and the vehicle was not fully screened although it did have standard suppression. A chore horse battery charger was fitted.

Colour would depend on when it was built.

If as I assume late war (post May 1944), base colour would have been British Olive drab.

HI Jules,

Looking at that pic after our conversation, you can see a full height compartment through the window. My bodies (Type II wireless) have a half height generator box in that position. The pic i told you about shows the slim 'wardrode' on the left of the rear door as you look inside. I guess the compartment we can see through the window carries either one big item or several items on shelves... but what?? I would put money on the chorehorse sitting on the floor in that part of the truck (not enough room in the wardrobe on the LHS) therefore it might have shelves or storge of some sort above it. The gene must be dragged out through the rear door, not through removable panels as on mine. I know this isn't much help!

cheers

Simon

I've just found another reference to these vehicles in Mike Conniford's "British Light Military Trucks 1939-1945", which expands on what I quoted before:

Very few 'house type' bodies were fitted to British 15-cwt chassis. Exceptions included... Wireless Light Warning which were mounted on both Guy 'Ants' and Ford WOT2H.

These vehicles were designed for use by radio location units with heavy anti-aircraft regiments for the approximate location of enemy aircraft within a range of 20 miles and the communication of that data to anti-aircraft gun batteries by cable line.

The special body was built by Morris-Commercial, with entry by the rear door. Equipment included light warning set, plotting table, and 'chore horse' battery charger. The vehicle was not fully screened but had standard suppression.

I no idea what a light warning set looks like.

THanks Runflat, thats really interesting, It all ties up, but.........................like you said what is a 'Light Warning set'?

If it had a Chore Horse Charger (which I have) what would it charge? it must of had a 19 set at least?

Can anyone else expland on what was meant by a 'Light Warning Set'

Thanks for the info so far guys.

Type "light warning set" (i.e. in quotes) into 'Google' and there are loads of radar and WW2 related hits. I'm sure you'll find something amongst all of that. Good luck and report back...

I couldn't resist having a quick look at some of the hits. The following came from here: http://www.pier21.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/stories/veterans/WWII_Veteran_and_Canadian_on_Radar_Fred_Hunt.pdf

The Light Warning Set was a small ground radar set operated by a small Royal Air Force crew and provided early warning of approaching enemy aircraft. Various Light Warning Crews saw operation service in the Far and Middle East, North Africa, Italy, as well as in North-west Europe.

The Light Warning Set came in two versions where the same radar equipment was mounted either in a specially constructed tent or in a ¾-ton Ford signals-van...

It keeps you wanting more...

...and this is fascinating as well: http://www.thememoryproject.com/digital-archive/profile.cfm?cnf=cf&collectionid=698

I have looked through my very comprehensive list of radar systems and have come up with one very likely radar type.

It is the Inter-Service Lightweight Warning Set, known as the AMES type 6 in RAF use and the Radar, AA, No4 Mk2 or 3 in Army Anti-Aircraft use.

This is the basic specification;

Vehicle type mounted in 15cwt truck, into action in 10 minutes. Weight including truck 3.1/7 tons.

Portable type mounted on tubular framework in tent, into action in 2 hours. Weight 1.1/3 tons.

Mk2's were the preliminary rush-job. Few were handmade for North Africa landings, 13 were built by October 1942.

Mk3 was the production model, 993 equipments produced in 1943-44.

Wide distribution to dominions and allies including USSR.

Data for"putting-on" (first detection of enemy aircraft and getting info such as bearing, elevation and range) sent by telephone to the gun-laying radar( the system that sends very accurate information to the guns via a predictor) typically a No3 Mk2.

Power supply normally Douglas 350cc petrol engine drivng 3.1/4 kVA alternator, giving 80V at 2000c/s, and DC generator giving 29V at 350W.

IFF Mk3 (Identification Friend or Foe) was also fitted with vertical radiators (aerials), separate T and R, using the A-scope for display.

System technical spec;

Frequency : 176-212 MHz (1.42-1.7m)

Max range : 50 miles

Peak power : 100 kW

Pulse width : 2us

Pulse repetition : 400

Accuracy : Range +/- 1000yds, Bearing +/- 2deg

number of operators : 2

Aerial : common TR, 4 horizontal Yagi's spaced 2x2 giving

3-dimensional arraywith 4 directors each. Upper and lower pairs

of Yagis may be fed in phase or anti-phase for gap-filling or to

give height indications at 90deg and 15deg. Manual rotation of

array to paint PPI, or motor driven at 4rpm. (PPI is Plan Position

Indicator and is the commonly known type where a straight

line from the centre of the tube revolves and any aircraft seen are

displayed as dots which slowly fade)

Display types : PPI and A-scope (the type found on an oscilloscope)

I have not yet found any drawings or photos of the equipment.

Hope you find this useful

Here is a Guy Ant in RAF service, its with B/26 Bomber Command 26 group which was Bomber Command's special Signals group. Note the truck is in RAF service but bears an Army Reg number. The guys in the piccy are taking part in pre invasion training

Ted, Thank you, that is very interesting, I really like the fact that I could restore it as an RAF truck.

I notice that you list two seperate Transmitter and a Reciever, any idea what these would be ? If RAF would it be the Aircraft R1155 / R1154 as fitted in Bombers.

That photo is fantastic, and is the identical body to mine, is that your photo? do youi have anymore of that truck?

Look forward to hearing more

Jules

Here's mine!

It is going to get resprayed the right colours in the Spring!

Jules

JULES I captured the picture from a video which I had transfered to DVD thankfully the whole film is excellent quality. Afraid its a very short clip with no other view.

I am puzzled about your question re transmitters and receivers I didn't mention them and I am afraid I know nothing about them .

The Mickey Mouse pattern on my picture is almost certainly a factory applied finish. I have read in both Army Council Instructions and Air Ministry Orders that the Mickey Mouse finish (as it has become known) was not desirable. The pattern on your vehicle is the one which is prefered and is illustated on an Army poster which give instructions on correctly painting vehicles.

You say you are going to put it into the right colours What is wrong with the existing colours ?? It looks to be SCC 4 (brown) with either SCC1A Very Dark Brown or SCC 14 Black on top. Which is fine. There seems to be this feeling that everything should be Olive Drab, Both the RAF and Army introduced OD with black in April 1944 The orders said vehicles already in SCC 2 were not to be repainted into OD until a repaint was absolutely necessary.

An Air Ministry Order of Sept 1944 notes "many vehicles will continue to be issued to the RAF and Army from factories in SCC 2 until all stocks of SCC2 were exhausted". At the same time (Sept 1944) Orders also noted that vehicles received in OD were no longer to receive the disruptive black pattern, (there was an exception but it was for vehicles received in OD but with a canvas tilt in SCC2 in which case SCC 14 black was to be applied to the tilt as a disruptive pattern but not to the rest of the vehicle.) My conclusion is that not a very high proportion of vehicles went into OD before the peacetime colours were introduced early 1946.

Regards TED

I like the colours, they look authentic, it would be a shame to repaint it. SCC2 brown was indeed very common, I also agree that OD would have been mainly used on new vehicles and then if only frontline, and black disruptive was being phased out towards the end of 44.

Wireless sets would not have been carried in the Light Warning bodied trucks, they would have served no purpose.

Thank you both for your very constructive comments................I'm learning a lot here.

Ted, I picked up on your listing of :- 'IFF Mk3........Seperate T & R using the A scope'.

I thought the 'T & R' was Transmitter & Reciever ?

I am still wondering just what was carried in the back body, there is a small two door cupboard at the cab end, with what looks like remains of supports for desk tops either side of it. the windows in the sides and rear door have a blackout screen and a mesh screen.

You talk of an 'A Scope' what was this ?

I would dearly like to restore my truck to what it was originally for, the Guy I bought it from thought it was a wireless Truck and collected wireless kit for it including a 19 Set, a 22 set, ground ariels and a whole load of other wireless ancillarys,.........................It would seam that I do not need any of this then?

I was not sure about the colour scheme, on first impression I thought, 'Thats not Mickey Mouse style' and the base colour of Olive Drab with Black................I stand corrected then that this would be right for a May 1943 vehicle?

Thanks very much for your help chaps.................keep your ideas coming.

Cheers

Jules

HI Jules,

This latest info by Runflat/ackack/ted proves the RAF connection that we dsicussed a few weeks ago. I also agree about the colours, and that many vehicels just get OD and/or MM cos the owners think it's right without researching too hard. I was just going to say that there would be no 19 set, as it's not required, but ackack got there first.

I was at the IWM on friday going thro the NW Europe section. 45 volumes of brill phots and my neck still hurts!! I first looked thro the dedicated books on trucks (outside the Morris ones I'd previously studied) as I hoped I'd find a pic of the wireless body I am restoring on a Guy Ant ( I have some pix already so I know they used them) I found zero but they are a few nice ones of your WOT with the light warening body out of the factory. These are KID 2385, KID 2208, and KID1973. You will like them!!!!!! Ring and order over the phone. I always get mine at 10 x 8. Frankly, it just shows your body on the truck to be correct, which we know, but it's nice to see the vehicle clearly photo'ed at the time.

The other version that crops up is the Data Recorder vehicle. Same body as the light warning ie internally the same and with no removable gene panels on the back or aerial storage.

There was a series of pix showing soldiers assessing data from a recorder vehicle. Sadly no vehicle in the pic. However, looking at the captions on the back of these, it said that the enemy's guns were recorded by a powerful microphone, the sound, as lines on a 3" wide tape (think heart monitor here) was printed out and the place where they were fired from decided. That plot was telephoned to the gunnery commander and the enemy gun positions stonked.

Of course non if this helped me to find an inside shot on the Wireless house type 2 but I'm back there in a few weeks!!!! Any info on wireless bodies appreciated. I will post a pic on a new thread shortly...

Simon

Thanks Simon, I have IWM 2385 & 1973, one is the pic at the start of this thread, the other is from the back, what does 2208 show?

Cheers

Jules

It would be a shame to change the colours Jules but i think the black ear pattern could be a little more prominant, any chance of it coming on our road run this spring

cheers

Les

Jules, Metropolitian-Vickers were heavily involved in the light warning radar here is a page of useful info and a drawing of the type including the Wot

cheers

Les

Thanks Ted, that a great picture and info, It looks like I will be constructing one of those Aerial's

Do you think you could get a better copy of the WOT photo?

Thats a real help, I still think I am right looking at all these original photos about the paint scheme.

So, I am very pleased to see that they were in RAF use.

Anyone have any more info, What are those 'tapes' hanging from the aerial ?

It will make an interesting display!

Thanks chaps, keep the info comming, there really is not enough published info on this subject.

Ted, when is your road run?

Cheers

Jules

Les, a most interesting find. Which book is that from?

Jules. I assume you are aware of the similar vehicle at the Shuttleworth collection? http://www.shuttleworth.org/shuttleworth_vehicles.asp I think this may be the one mentioned in Windscreen December 1987 (Vol 10/4).

Good luck on finding the correct equipment - I can't imagine it'll be easy to find.

I also meant to ask you what the circular structure on top of your vehicle is. Do you know? It doesn't appear on the first picture you posted; and the brackets etc on that vehicle don't appear to be on yours. What are your thoughts?

I don't know if the editor here can give you any info http://www.radarpages.co.uk/index.htm - his interest may be all cold war.

JUles think i will nip over and try some of that seddlescombe booze thats affecting you Ted lives in the far North long way to go for a road run. Heres the Ford photo

Runflat the book is Metropoliton- Vickers contribution to ww2

cheers

Les

Runflat the book is Metropoliton- Vickers contribution to ww2

Cheers - amazing how many of these 'contribution' histories there are. All full of little gems.